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Weapon Damage

A Forum Thread for GameBanana

Sorry, for annoying the community again but when I test the damage I was totally disappointed. The fiveseven is weaker than the usp when in real life it was suppose to be between a usp and desert eagle. The submachine guns were lower than the pistols by a reasonable margin and the assualt rifles are too weak while ak47s are better than. M4a1's damage was approximately 20 damage while aks were 33. I know that in real life that m4a1, aug, and sg552 have more power than ak47. Why can't you just soft-code it Haunter? I already looked at the tutorial and it is seemly easy. Here's the tutorial You choose not to do what I have just asked but this is my opinion. If you aren't can you please reply and get it through my hard head?

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  • Haunter avatar
    Haunter Joined 18y ago
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    Woooooo........ Maybe like how he did those CLHD packs in one night all by himself. Share the secret, Seven! :D :D
    Bananite
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    Originally posted by The Ranger Sometime, S7, you need to sit down and tell us at length what you've done since you left high school. We've heard snippets of your life in various posts and it sounds pretty goddamn interesting. EDIT: I'd also like to compliment you on the use of the "Extremely Long Essay-Like Post That Gets Your Point Across Without Swearing Every Third Word, Via The Use of Good English And Connotative Diction". It's the sorta thing I would write. :)
    I can't help but agree, I am pretty sure he has a few skeletons in the closet that he don't want to expose us for... I don't mean any harm by saying this.
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  • Haunter avatar
    Haunter Joined 18y ago
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    My life is simple. Wake up, go school, study, come back, sleep. That is summerised. Meeting Charmaine, eating, drinking, going to the gents are varying.
    Bananite
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    Sometime, S7, you need to sit down and tell us at length what you've done since you left high school. We've heard snippets of your life in various posts and it sounds pretty goddamn interesting. EDIT: I'd also like to compliment you on the use of the "Extremely Long Essay-Like Post That Gets Your Point Across Without Swearing Every Third Word, Via The Use of Good English And Connotative Diction". It's the sorta thing I would write. :)
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    h4mx0r username pic Joined 17y ago
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    DOH! SO VASH THE STAMPEDE IS AN ANIME CHARACTER!!! I SEE... no wonder I see so many people called vash or vash the stampede... I thought it was a unique name and only one person played as vash.....
    it's pronounced "ham-saur avatar
    Mantra
    it's pronounced "ham-saur
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    Okay, I see... Hmmm.
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  • Haunter avatar
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    Go to Yahoo. In the search box, type in 'Trigun'.
    Bananite
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    Sweeper Joined 17y ago
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    Originally posted by Haunter Look under anime for Trigun.
    What did you just say?
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    Haunter Joined 18y ago
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    Look under anime for Trigun.
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    Strange, I have never heard of this Vash fellow...
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    That must explains that Vash the stampede avatar. :P
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    SyntaxxSeven Joined 16y ago
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    Well, Doccer - What did you expect? Did you think was just another online shît talker who just spews random spouts of stupidty? God, I hope not, jesus, lol. That's the not image I was trying to portray. We're just stubbern man, I am a major culprit of it. I'm an stubbern little bastard and that'll probably never change. I guess it was just time to come to terms with what was being stated here. I wanted you too see me for me and not some misconcieved first impression of me. Truce?
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    I appear to have touched off a nerve, as your second post has you switch positions 180 degrees from your first post. This is fun. :)
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    You psycoanalysis of was so completely off base it's litterly bordering the edge of retardation itself. I don't mean to sound pissed, god knows it would be a waste of my time but I am agitated, friend. I have no problem with you, Doccer. I have no fear of weapons either. I have fired enough weapons to last a lifetime. DO NOT mistake my lack of interest devoting an exponential ammount of time working with them anymore for a phobia. You just totally misconvieved every word that was spoken by me. Again, I have no fücking fear of weapons whatseoever. Excuse my language. I do however have quite a bit of experience dealing with situations in the past smililar to what you have stated about your own experiences with sick and twisted people taking it apon themselves to harm others. Now, I do respect the fact that you pride yourself in your ability to use a firearm. The knowledge is more then crucial to have in your field and in life in general. I do hold the greatest respect in those who would stand up for people they don't even know, people that would otherwise be harmed had your intervention not been offered. I know all about these things, Doccer. I also have no dream depiction of the United States. I've lived here my whole life and have had the privledge to serve in one of the greatest armies in the civilised world. I don't take kindly to you sitting here telling me that I'm some kind of a sexually inept retard who basically holds some kind of psycologically twisted perspective or phobia of using, owning or other wise believing in the use of weapons. If that's your analysis, then you my friend are SEVERELY mistaken. I suggest that you head back to the local JC or University to refund the money you've invested in education because the Psycology courses have failed you considerably. You are a very intelligent person and I thought by what you've read your perception of me would be slightly different from you've stated. This pains me as I can see your level of intellect but I cannot see why it is you've painted such a grim image of me based on the information you've thus far been offered. Now, I have no problem being civil with you, Doccer. I have no problem just walking away from this thread and not wasting my time responding to another rash of insults or other acts "I'm better then you, here's ten thousand reasons why". To be honest I don't even know why I was even bothered by your last post. I guess it's because you're under the impression that you think*** you know me. You believe for some apparently off the wall reason that understand my reasoning for not* resorting to weapons this day in age. I agree whole heartidly with your points concerning woman and those who are truely in fear of thier lives to own, carry and even use a firearm against another person under ANY circumstance they feel like thier life is in danger. I believe that a .357 would be more then helpful to a woman that weighs no more then a buck o' 5 soaking wet compared to some corn fed linebacker rapist. Your damn right I believe in self defense, I believe in killing for a purpose, a reason worth taking another life. I have absoluetely no problem whatsoever killing another human being. I have no reservations or the slightest hesitations in doing so. I never have in the past and in the future I doubt I ever will. I don't need to explain my reasons for not carrying weapons anymore, they're my own and they're life changing experiences that I would just rather not waste my time trying to explain to someone who wouldn't take the time themself to understand them. You've demonstrated already from your posts that you're under the impression that you understand my reasons.. But in all grim reality, friend. You have no idea what basis I have come to my beliefs or what has transpired in the past to make me believe in them. Chances are, you're probably going to respond to this with some kind of hell fire comeback of psycological analysis. You'll take everything I've said here as a threatning act of argumentation. That's not the case at all, m'friend. Infact I wish for this argument to end. Seeing as how you can't walk in my shoes nor I in yours, it would be best if this conversation ended with an understanding of where each of us stands. I guess voicing an opinion on here is not exactly a wise idea, sticking to Counter-Life would obviously be a wiser course of action. But, I made the mistake of voicing an opinion and now I've got to pay the piper by having to argue with some one that is obviously well educated, a very calm demeanered and respectful of thier debating opponents. For my previously rash coments out of frustration, I do apologize. I have noticed one thing above all others in this series of posts that has gained you my respect. Not once have you spoken a single curse word or spoken ill mannored, without first thinking cleverly about your words. You have insulted me several times but you did so by my own retaliative responses out of frustration and should have been expected by me to recieve. I don't hold them against you. I will admit however with all seriousness, you do make a very well founded argument. It's not common to run into people who actually voice educated responses to arguments. I do regret however that you see me in the light you've cast me in, it could only be the furthest from the truth that is humanly possible. I know I sometimes get frustrated on the forums, people who know me pretty well on here have seen it the past. I guess when my personal charactor is attacked it puts me on serious edge and I can't help but voice a very strong comback to at least defend my own charactor. I'm not some weak minded fool that is easily shît on in life, nor do I take shît from people in the real-world. I guess in real life, I'm so used to being serious in persona that it rubs off here. For that sharp wit I do apologize. The only thing is, this is the online world and doesn't reflect any part of me other then my interest in graphics and charactor design. So, in the long run I guess I'm here for the development of Counter-Life and not serious side tagents like this one. I hate arguing with people, Doccer. I especially hate arguing with people that I know are very experienced in life and have been through many things. I respect experience and I respect those who have learned from those experiences. What I'm trying to say Doccer, is that the both of us are two intelligent and just to damn stubbern to let up on this thread. Personally, I'd rather argue constructively about politics with you. In any case, discression is the better part of valor. I'm going to walk away from this one and respectfully withdrawl in this verbal debate of personal beliefs. I don't doubt you'll respond, but hopefully when you do it'll be with a clearer perspective of exactly what I stand for and what kind of person I truely am. I don't like disrespecting people's belief's and have made a pact so to speak to simply not do it even when I dsagreed with them. Anyways, as much as I'd like to argue points with you constructively, I'm not interested in doing it anymore concerning this particular subject. I have my reasons for believing what I believe - You have your reasons for believing what you believe. Let us respect eachothers perspectives and bring this argument of hostility to a close. Perhaps we'll speak on other subjects further down the road, I wouldn't mind hearing different perspectives on certain things from someone of your intellect and calibre. Until then, m'friend PS: You should have been on a college debate team, you'd of anniahilated any and all compitition with an ironfist. =)
    Bananite
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    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." -- Sigmund Freud, General Introduction to Psychoanlysis (1952) You seem to feel that many of us "Lust" after weapons, and that they are the core of our existance. In my case, the latter is somewhat true, because I'm a gunsmith. Mostly I became a gunsmith because I enjoy problem solving, and working with my hands. A good deal of the work I do is with police agencies though, which are the largest "Dealers of Death" in the US, if you go by the raw numbers. A gun is the great equalizer. You may fantacize about being able to "Break your boot off in someone's ***", but keep in mind that not everyone has 10 years of military combat experience. Many cannot due to physical constraints. A 120 pound girl isn't going to be able to stand up to fisticuffs with a 280 pound running back. She has a helluvalot better chance with a snub-nosed .357, though, doesn't she? And, from my own observations, the people who tend to own the most weapons (and most variety of weapons) are wealthy/well-to-do members of society, like Doctors, Lawyers, and the like. The "Hillbillies" you refer to usually only have a beat-to-**** SKS and remington 870 they keep in the trailer, and only bring in once the pitting in the barrel gets so bad you need to replace it. I'm wagering good money you've never been to the US, or you'd know just how off you were in your dreamwold depiction of it, heh. But, if you must know, My personal carrying of a 1911a1 has thusfar stopped one armed robbery, and one rape (And the guy was wanted for a previous rape/murder, too), both within 10 miles of my home. (the rape also got me a nice rapport with the local police, which got me alot of business from them. Tee-hee!) What has your irrational distaste of "civilians"* defending themselves done for you lately? * BTW, over here, we call them "Citizens". Unlike most countries subjects, our Citizens have rights and RESPONSIBILITIES that go along with them, including the responsibility of self-protection.
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  • Sweeper avatar
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    I don't see the harm in blasting some paper to pieces. Thats what I am on, the more paper you can blast away to get a good score, the better.
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    I havn't had barely any time to post lately, but yes, you're absouletely right, Doccer. The MAK90 was converted to full auto and had numerous piss poor operations done to it before it was purchased by me. I've fired numerous weapons in my time but the Ak47 and it's genre of assault rifles I have only had the one experience. I personally couldn't stand that piece of goat shît and ended up selling it a long time ago. As for the information reguarding the cartridges mentioned, I see very little difference in what was stated by me about cleaving/penetration versus what you stated. I've fired m249's in the Military utilising 5x56mm ammunition and compared to the .308, it was miniscule in reguards to piercing heavily armored vehicals. The .308 on the other hand had a much higher penetration factor. Then again all of the rounds mentioned in the last 20 something posts have thier unique applications and are designed to do different things. It all depends on personal preference on what a person would use. In any case, all of those cartridges are designed with one primary focus in mind. Killing another living thing. Now, I've had my experiences with death and seeing bloodshed, friend. I don't care what round does what anymore, they all do the same thing. Kill. I'd rather not fire any weapon at all if I could help it. Why use a gun in todays age as a civilian? That's what breaking your boot off in someone's âss is for. Then again, most people are so obsessed with weapons and death they they're sadistically inclined to run out and shoot everything. Buy every weapon on the market like some cracked out Hillbilly NRA member. Well, I guess I'm not all into killing people anymore. Sometimes the past is better left the past and the present is just to forget about it. Anyways, I'm half-awake right now and I'm sure this post will get a dozen comments in response asking me awkward questions and either A: Being sarcastic, B: making a comment on something I said and comparing it to the Webster's encyclopedia of nuclear weapons or some off the wall shît. or C: Just ranting to get thier post numbers up. In any case, I'm too tired to care. You guys can take your weapons of war and go shoot some eastern cohilition zealot. I've served my time, I don't need to dwell on the capabilities of guns, bombs, missiles or other man made destructive forces anymore. I'll leave that to you folks. Join the service, get your jollies off there. At least you'd have a purpose in doing it. I can personally garuntee that in time, somewhere along the line, after you've seen hell and highwater, people ripped open and gutted by crossfire - you'll hate the same guns you love now. You don't see it yet, but you will. Enjoy the rush while it lasts.
    Bananite
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  • Sweeper avatar
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    Originally posted by Doccers Another serious problem that related to the "Stick VS Ball" powder was Rate Of Burn. The stick powder burns extremely quick, and the maximum pressure is reached very quickly, and then tapers down rapidly as the bullet is pushed down the barrel. Ball powder, burns just as intensly (you get actually a little more chamber pressure), but it takes longer to burn. With stick powder, the max pressure occours when the bullet is about an inch down the barrel or so, and starts tapering off. With Ball powder, maximum pressure occours just as the bullet is reaching the gas port - which was designed to take about 10,000 PSI, not the full 75,000 PSI of max pressure that the .223 cartridge can generate. So suddenly you're innundating the gas rod system with 7 times the pressure it was designed to handle.... Funny that, the weapon starts jamming... I've seen this happen to an AK too, a guy used the same ball powder from the vietnam war AR-15's in a 7.62x39 russian round, and loaded it up into an AK.... The fore-end blew off. Keep in mind that none of the AR-15's did this, they just stopped working. :D
    Ever tried putting just a little bit of snow in the end of a barrel in a shotgun? If you haven't and are going to try it, I recommend ataching it to something and put a string to the trigger. So you can fire it from a distance...
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    Another serious problem that related to the "Stick VS Ball" powder was Rate Of Burn. The stick powder burns extremely quick, and the maximum pressure is reached very quickly, and then tapers down rapidly as the bullet is pushed down the barrel. Ball powder, burns just as intensly (you get actually a little more chamber pressure), but it takes longer to burn. With stick powder, the max pressure occours when the bullet is about an inch down the barrel or so, and starts tapering off. With Ball powder, maximum pressure occours just as the bullet is reaching the gas port - which was designed to take about 10,000 PSI, not the full 75,000 PSI of max pressure that the .223 cartridge can generate. So suddenly you're innundating the gas rod system with 7 times the pressure it was designed to handle.... Funny that, the weapon starts jamming... I've seen this happen to an AK too, a guy used the same ball powder from the vietnam war AR-15's in a 7.62x39 russian round, and loaded it up into an AK.... The fore-end blew off. Keep in mind that none of the AR-15's did this, they just stopped working. :D
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    Doccers is absolutely correct. Even the A2 variant of the M16 is a reliable weapon. Compared to the Vietnam-era M16s, anyway. And I still don't know where your "dirt in the magazine" bit came from. >)
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    Originally posted by Haunter Actually, I've kind of found my perfered rifle. The sg552. The awesome power it holds. The scope! Wow! But of course, preference changes. But back to it. I can't really tell if the m4 or m16 is better.
    Play CS with a friend and play on De_prodigy, both buy the M249.. Then wait for the T's in the main hall with all the boxes. When they come, hose them down just keep the trigger pressed. 2x SAW's do real damage, me and friend we had the headshots ticking steadily in, even when all the 10 terrorists attempt an all out asault on us.
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    Actually, I've kind of found my perfered rifle. The sg552. The awesome power it holds. The scope! Wow! But of course, preference changes. But back to it. I can't really tell if the m4 or m16 is better.
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    I like the M16 comparted to an M4. The M16 looks like a M4 with a long barrel. It also look like I long range type rifle more that the M4 which looks like a mduim type ranged gun use for cover type fir.
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    The M-16 is no longer prone to jamming. It WAS, due to two things primarily: When introduced, it did not have a chromium lined chamber, which it didn't need in it's civilian version, because you can just take it home and clean it after every outing. Not so on the battlefield... Also, the US Military switched the ammunition type from Stick powder to Ball powder. Ball has more "ooomph" for long-range shooting, but also burns alot dirtier. So several components were re-designed, and a foreward assist was added, and the jamming problems Ceased. Modern varients are extremely reliable, and the latest M-4 and M-16a3 varients have easily beaten out all but the old AK-47 for sheer reliability. (It even beat out the AK-74 in a few tests...) It's nice to see you know some history, just try and make sure it's up to date. :)
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    Originally posted by The Ranger Uhhh... what the hell are you talking about? M16s? Dirt in the magazine? Look that up again. Adding a port won't help that much, either. The cases carry a lot of heat out with them when they eject, a lot more than would escape through a cooling port.
    Don't you know that M-16's are prone to jamming? They have been like that since they were introduced in 'Nam. They required a lot of cleaning, and here is the big price. It were said it was a self cleaning rifle, but on the battlefield, it jams when the AK is still firing.
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    Uhhh... what the hell are you talking about? M16s? Dirt in the magazine? Look that up again. Adding a port won't help that much, either. The cases carry a lot of heat out with them when they eject, a lot more than would escape through a cooling port.
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    Originally posted by The Ranger Caseless isn't gonna go anywhere until they can find another way to prevent overheating. And the M-14 is uber-seksy.
    Yeah, the solution is to add a port just for cooling, but it comes at a price of reliability. Because then you get what the M-16 suffers from, dirt in the magazine, and it jams!
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    Caseless isn't gonna go anywhere until they can find another way to prevent overheating. And the M-14 is uber-seksy.
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    Originally posted by Sweeper Gunsmiths, funny people, well okay, lets say I put an HK G-11 Prototype on your table, now I know it is nearly impossible to get one, but lets say that. I ask you to overhaul it, what can you do with it?. Sorry, I am just a fan of that little bastard gun.
    That's that little caseless design that went nowhere, right? Well, the first question is, what do you want out of it? I mean, the thing's mostly polymers, so I'm not sure I could refinish it very easily for you, I'd probobly be able to adjust the trigger pull for you, and maybe work some of the pieces to live a bit happier together (Factory fresh weapons sometimes have pieces that are rougher cut than is liked)... My current lovelies are M1 based rifles (M1, M1A, M14, Mini-14), I can get the trigger pull to 1 pound 3 oz, which is pure sex. For me, anyways.
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    Originally posted by Doccers I'm fairly sure the Sig p228 is availagle in .357 Sig. It's not the .357 made popular in the Magnum Revolver cartridge, it's a necked down automatic service pistol round that has some nice numbers (about as good as a 40 S&W I'd say). As for the Kalashnikov's being built in fuller length cartridge, the only full size 7.62 cartrige Kalashnikov design that I can think of fires the 7.62x54R (russian Rimmed) cartridge, not the Nato 7.62x51. But hey, it's just a game, and alot of people who work on these mods (which are excellent and fun to play) live outside of the US where your average joe has about a 0% chance of firing a weapon unless they join the army.
    Gunsmiths, funny people, well okay, lets say I put an HK G-11 Prototype on your table, now I know it is nearly impossible to get one, but lets say that. I ask you to overhaul it, what can you do with it?. Sorry, I am just a fan of that little bastard gun.
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    There are Romanian AKs that spit the 7.62 NATO round. EDIT: Whoops, I'm wrong: I did a bit of research and found that Romanian AKs are only made with three ammo types: "7.62x39mm", "5.45x39mm", and "5.56x45mm". The only NATO round they are made for is the 5.56mm.
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    I'm fairly sure the Sig p228 is availagle in .357 Sig. It's not the .357 made popular in the Magnum Revolver cartridge, it's a necked down automatic service pistol round that has some nice numbers (about as good as a 40 S&W I'd say). As for the Kalashnikov's being built in fuller length cartridge, the only full size 7.62 cartrige Kalashnikov design that I can think of fires the 7.62x54R (russian Rimmed) cartridge, not the Nato 7.62x51. But hey, it's just a game, and alot of people who work on these mods (which are excellent and fun to play) live outside of the US where your average joe has about a 0% chance of firing a weapon unless they join the army.
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    The Ranger Joined 17y ago
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    Back to the AK47 jamming conversation: I've never owned, shot or maintained any weapon from the Kalashnikov family, but what I've heard is that they're the most reliable weapons available. I think the example I heard was "leave 'it in a puddle for a week: pull it out, wipe it off, and it'll shoot". Doccers is right. There are many mistakes in Counter-Strike, so I wouldn't take CD data as accurate knowledge. Gooseman himself admitted that he had never owned or fired a guy when he made Counter-Strike. The AK-47 sharing its ammo with the NATO 7.62 is utter bullcookie. While there are Kalashnikov weapons made/converted for 7.62x51mm, they are certainly not the sort that terrorist group would handle. Also: the Sig P228 is NOT a .357, recoil does not throw aim in random directions, and Glock 18s have a fully automatic setting or single-shot, not curst. Just some of the many inaccuries in CS.
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    End Of Days Joined 17y ago
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    Boy oh boy. I usaully carry 2 rifles. I try and carry rifles that don't share ammo. Sniper gun use the same ammo the rifle do so I try and get weapons that have there own ammo. I don't like the glocks because I like carrying the MP5 and they share ammo. I like the USP .45. Powerful and can kill craps with one shot and can be silenced. The AK47 is not my liking because I carry the scout alot and you now(ammo). SOmetime I only carry for a rifle the COmmando or the AUG because of the I can zoom. I love carrying the AWP because it is badd***.
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    Necro: I would avoid Glocks. Or at least glocks in calibers larger than 9mm. They have a very steep loading ramp to the chamber, and due to that, the rear-bottom of the cartridge is completely unsupported when in battery. This means that *ALL* of the force of firing is placed on the thin brass wall of the cartridge at that point when you discharge the gun, and cases weren't designed for that. So you get "Bulges" in the cases, which can make extraction difficult (IE, Jam), Or, in worse cases, Catastrophic Case Failure/Load Induced Dissasembly. In english: "KABOOM!". The entire force of the explosion is also angled *DOWNWARDS* inside the frame of the pistol in this case, directly towards the grips and magazine.... Not. Good. Protect your hands. Avoid Glock.
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    Oh, one more thing: Please, If you can buy a pistol, Do not buy a Desert Eagle, Ever. Please, Please, Please. Puting a Gas Operation in something the size of a PISTOL is not a great idea to start with, and the twists and turns the gas port takes in a DE are so severe, that even when shooting factory ammunition (the cleanest you can get, and it costs you a LOT of money), You're going to start noticing jams after the second magazine, due to how much unburned powder resedue winds up in the gas port. And good luck cleaning it yourself! I've got specialty tools to do it, and I *STILL* think it's bloody near impossible. Thats why I charge people $90 dollars for a Desert Eagle cleaning.... Everything else is $20. :D
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    Anyways, Syntax: I don't mean to rail on you directly, but you owning an AK that fired .308 (7.62x51 NATO) instead of the 7.62x39R it was designed for, could be the reason it kept jamming - someone probobly did a piss poor conversion job on it that isn't very safe. The NATO round is twice the size of the soviet 7.62 round, and it shoots alot "hotter". A normal AK will never, Ever, EVER jam. I've seen people take an AK out of a garage that they haven't fired in 3 years, the bolt is rusted shut, all they do is kick the bolt open, slap a magazine into it, and it'll fire all weekend. (he took down 2 deer with that old peice of junk too, heh). Anyways. I would HIGHLY reccomend you do not shoot that weapon any longer, as an MAK 90 is made of stamped steel, and firing a .308 NATO round, is very, very liable to blow up in your hands. -Doc
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    Sorry to pipe in here, but there are a few things posted here that drive me wonky. I'm a gunsmith in Colorado, so I know a couple of things about firearms. Counter-Strike has done more harm to general firearms knowlage than anything I can recall in recent history. So I'm going to try and correct a few misnomers that keep floating around. ;) #1: the 5.7mm round was not designed to be "AS POWERFUL AS A DESART EGUL LOL" or whathaveyou, it was designed specifically to penetrate body armor. Kevlar Level IIA vests and the like, that are gaining popularity with armed forces and large gangs/criminal groups worldwide. It will NOT do more "Damage" to a person than say a 9mm or a .45acp, it will just penetrate alot better. The ballistic cavity it leaves in it's victim is no larger than either of those, and the kinetic energy it hits with is actually a bit less - it's just concentrated on a smaller point, allowing for more penetration. Now, as for assualt rifles: For one thing, 7.62x39 is ***NOT*** A NATO ROUND. it is a *soviet*/Warsaw Pact round, based off of the 7.62x54 Rimmed Russian cartridge, and the german 8mm Kurz cartridge for the StG-44 (Which the AK design was more or less lifted from). The 7.62mm *NATO* round, is a 7.62x51mm (.308 Winchester) round. So HAUNTER: The G3 Sniper rifle does NOT use the same ammunition as the AK-47, like you have in-game. Just a hint. ;) The more comperable cartridge NATO uses vs the 7.62x39R, is the 5.56x45 (.223 Remington) case. As for which is the "More Powerful" round, well, the 7.62x51mm round is the most powerful of all these three, and no, it was *NOT* Designed to "Penetrate APC skin" or whatnot - it was just a modernized and standardized update of the venerable 30-06 ("Thirty Caliber") round in use since before WWI. They both have pretty much the exact same ballistic charactoristics, the only notable difference is the .308 round is a bit more accurate due to having less space for powder to move around and bunch up in, causing uneven burns. But that's a bit advanced for most folks here. ;) The NATO round that *WAS* designed to penetrate armored fighting vehicle skins, was John Browning's 12.7x99mm (.50BMG) round, put into service around 1928 or so. But we don't have this round in the game so I'm not going to say much about it. Between the 5.56 and 7.62x39mm rounds, which is the "Better" round? It depends on what you want in a bullet. The 5.56 went into service because it was small and lightweight, so you could carry twice or more the ammo than you could with the older 30-06 or .308 battle rifles (M1, M-14, etc), *AND* it shot a remarkably flat trajectory, making shooting it alot easier at ranges up to about 300 yards (which most fighting was done within), and as a side effect, close up it tended to penetrate body armor fairly well due to it's small size and high velocity. (Somewhat like a 5.7mm pistol round) The disadvantage was, the further out it went, it bled velocity rapidly, to the point where if you shoot it at a 500 yard standard paper target, it has a tendancy to hit the paper and the backing it's on, and just bounce off and fall down. This gave rumor to it "Tumbling" during flight - it doesn't. Just after it hits something at extreme range when it's lost all it's "Oomph". Under 300 yards though, it will hit someone with a vest on and probobly bore right through it depending on the ammunition used. The soviet 7.62x39 round, is a slightly larger round (overall), with a normal 30 caliber bullet sitting atop the case. It will also fire accurately up to about 300 yards, but the trajectory is very "Curved", so hitting something out past that becomes difficult, something best left to marksmen (who will be armed with full size rifle calibers anyways...) At 300 yards it probobly won't penetrate kevlar level IIA vests, but you still don't want to get hit with it, it'll leave one hell of a bruise. Closer up, the combination of weight and power is more than enough to penetrate vests, and I would say that from 100 yards and closer, the 7.62x39 is probobly the harder-hitting round, though the 5.56 will be easier to hit things with, and will leave a nasty, nasty wound due to that long narrow bullet fragmenting. It's a toss-up, with both sides arguing points. Personally I have rifles that shoot each. The AK-47 is not "prone to jamming", in fact, it's the exact opposite: It will danged near *NEVER* Jam. Kalashnikov designed it with very loose-fitting tolerences in mind for just that reason - so that illiterate russian peasants drafted into service could shoot with it, and if they weren't trained properly/didnt care enough to clean it regularly, So be it, It'll still fire. The downfall to this? It's not a particularly accurate weapon. The M-16/M4 Carbine is much, MUCH more accurate than a Kalashnikov, as their tolerences are much much smaller (not anywhere near as much movement of parts inside the reciever). But, that makes them more prone to jamming. Though they don't do that much anymore since we chromium-lined the barrels. ;) You do have to clean it regularly though, unlike an AK.
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    Haunter Joined 18y ago
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    Guns glore! So many different types of rifles! So many models in mind to download! I think if there were not SMGs, assault rifles are the most commonly used weapons in CS. Unfortunately, each team can buy only two. Ah, those were the beta days when CTs can buy the SG552 commando. Anyway, that's all for today. See you guys on Friday.
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    darkblade Joined 17y ago
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    SyntaxxSeven and NecroWraith, what is said is true. 5.56 rounds are designed to break into fragments and it's true that it is lighter and it is prone to break during impact. However the thing about the "non-killing bullet" is slightly true. The bullet, during impact, splits into fragments therefore multiplying the damage but it does not kill them like the old .30 cal weapons. It causes the target to bleed allowing U.S. soldiers to follow the wounded soldier but by the time the soldiers get to the wounded soldier, they are usually found dead from massive blood loss. Here's the website... Here's the one for ak47... For sniper-wolf-sin if you want to know more about ar-15 here's a site that might help you... or
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    Sniper-Wolf-sin Joined 16y ago
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    aww. the AR-15 rocks man.. That would be a nice weapon to put in CL..
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    SyntaxxSeven Joined 16y ago
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    The Avtomat Kalishnkov model 47 is a highly effective weapon despite it's high probablility of jamming. One of the most prominant problems with the Ak47 is uneven heat disapation. The M4 utilises a gas-expansion reviever and actually controls the flow of air discharge out of precision vented ports along the side of the barrel. This allows superior heat dispersion and prevents the internal firing mechanisms from siezing up inside. This feature alone provides far superior reliability over most traitional assault rifles, making the M4 one of the most effectively versatile weapons in the armed service today. Now, the effectiveness of .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) rounds versus .308 (7.62 x 39 NATO) cartridge is fairly obvious. Both rounds have very effective stopping power and high-grain dispersion to allow for increased velocity. Although the .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) is a smaller bore diameter, the actual grain behind the projectile is higher then the .308 (7.62 x 39 NATO) cartridge . Even knowing this, the .308 was designed to pierce armored APC's, helicopter side plating and infantry body armor. Naturally, this means that it is more effective against armored targets and provides far more effective physical stopping power. If you guys want to get technical, the 5x56mm Nato cartridge once fired has a very high probability of being deflected by ANY kind of obstacle, tree branch, twigs sticking out of brush, etc. Regardless of what you may think, the 5x56mm cartridge will ricochet off of a twig of a tree branch totally interupting it's directional course and bearing - The slightest object no matter how small can make for a missed shot with that particular round. As for the AK47, a .308 would not veer from it's fired course and wouldn't even be effected by the same twig fired multiple times while duplicating the same events. I know this because I have owned an MAK-90 in the past, It is the semi-automatic legalised version of the Kalishnkov Ak47. I have also fired and owned a Colt AR-15 Carbine. It's not the M4, but the AR-15 can be purchased in either .308 or .223 formats. I owned a .223 and from personal experience firing both, dozens of times over alot of beers and camping trips - The AK47 is a FAR superior weapon for stopping power. But, you risk a very, very high probability that the heat discharged from the AK47 will size and lock up the internal firing mechanism. Where as the Colt AR-15 or the M4 will hardly ever give you any problems whatsoever. So, the end result is both weapons have thier intended purposes. One is designed to clip and cleave flesh while the other is designed to incapacitate targets while wearing body armor. The 5x56mm round was designed to be used in this fashion. Also, the smaller bore diameter of the 5x56mm round has several benefits in the field. You can load more ammunition in a magazine over the .308 and not suffer from the weight encoured by a round of larger calibre. You'd be suprised of the weight difference while actually holding an AR-15 with a 30 round straight Magazine compared to an Ak47 with the same ammount of ammunition. The AK47 is much heavier then the M4. Also, the M4's and AR-15 series Composite Polymer construction on many parts of the frame ( Designed and manufactred by Matel Corporation ) help to decrease the weight of the weapon considerably. If you had to march 25 miles through sticks, jungle, molaria infected swamp water, wading through 5 foot streams while carrying an fully loaded Ak47 - Your âss is gonna be hitting the dirt for a LONG nap when you get back to base camp. That's assuming your don't jam up or you die before you reach it. Compared to the AK47, the M4 is a feather weight and can easily be thrown over your shoulder and allow you to move quickly and discreetly though enemy territory without disrupting your ground movement speed Perils take on Guerilla warfare tactics is correct. By injuring your enemies troops instead of immediately killing them, you slow down thier ground movement speed, you force them to draw apon thier medical supplies and rations in order to support the wounded. This is a very critical move while in the field because support caravan's of APCs with rations and medical supplies can be delayed for weeks at a time during wartime. By wounding the enemy, you can incapacitate an entire encampment and leave them unable to recooperate thier losses. Support troops, once alerted of the raid, will send reinforcements to that location. Well, before thier troops can arrive to ascertain the damage, treat the wonded and further consume precious field resources... Your troops already stole all of the muntions, weapons and as much supplies as a small unit can carry by man power. By doing this, the enemy funds your assaults. Seeing as how in Vietnam, the .223 wasn't native of that country or even used by any faction in it... By using Guerilla warfare tactics your enemy funds your primary assaults whilst conserving your .233 ammunition available for your American and Brittish .303 weaponry while in the field. So, ammunition type, bore diameter, velocity and tactics used while implimenting all of these values come together in one major specialised strategy of contemporary ground warefare. That's my two cents on the subject~ Enjoy
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    Sniper-Wolf-sin Joined 16y ago
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    um first of all. the damage is probably off centered but what about recoil. the AK has more recoil. like if it does more damage the more recoil it has. the lesss damage it has the less recoil it has. recoil as in acuuracy.
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    darkblade Joined 17y ago
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    Too bad I don't have enough......... :confused: :confused:
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    They have an MP5 for sale at one of the local gunshops around here for $10,000. Yes, you read that right. The next gun I want to get is a USP I think, but I don't wanna shell out the almosy $800 for it. I might just pick up a Glock 22C for $550 instead.
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    darkblade Joined 17y ago
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    Originally posted by NecroWraith Well, it's hard to find anything except "Collectors" versions in which case I've seen them run up to $4000. You can get a reissue for like $300 though. But the M9 costs that much as well, or nearly, so price isn't much of a factor.
    Cheapest price for m9 costs $400, new, but I rarely find those. Cheapest collectors I found were slightly scratched but costed at a low price of $1,200, with that money I could by a m203 grenade attachment. If you thought collectors was expensive, you should look at this and
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    Well, it's hard to find anything except "Collectors" versions in which case I've seen them run up to $4000. You can get a reissue for like $300 though. But the M9 costs that much as well, or nearly, so price isn't much of a factor.
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    That's not true. The colt m1911a1 is expensive. Unless you can find a website that sells it cheaper that $600.
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    The 1911A1 is no longer the sidearm of the US military. It it the Beretta M9. A lot of special forces still use the 1911A1 because the M9 simply lacks the eqiuvalent in power. The 1911A1 had an ammo capacity of 7 rounds single stacked magazines, or 12 rounds double stacked. Thinking that dropping the power of your sidearm by that much to get 3 extra rounds is rediculous. Also, the M9 is more expensive than the 1911A1. I have a 92FS which is nearly the same gun except for the frame rails and threaded barrel. Used it cost me $500. The 1911A1's NEW cost that much. The M9 does have a longer lifespan and is more reliable however. It is also much more accurate. The 1911A1 was jokingly called the 45 in Vietnam not because of the ammo it fired, but bacause of the trajectory it fired at, which is to say 45 degree angles.
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    I never said the 7.62 fragments, I said the 5.56 fragments. I said that the 7.62 pierces steel. I also never said the 5.7 x 28 rounds sucked. In fact, I've fired an FN P90 before, and it's a DAMN sweet weapon. And that ammo is the reason you can fit 50 rounds in a magazine. The reason the M4 has higher muzzle velocity is because the round is smaller and lighter. I BELIEVE the M4 has a slightly longer barrel. I could be wrong on that. The biggest problem with the AK is also it's best feature. The gun is built so loose that it's really difficult to jam. It's also makes the gun much less accurate than it could be. But, 70 million AK's produced around the world says something about reliability. I'm not saying the M4 is a bad weapon. In fact, the M4 is also a damn sweet weapon. A definate improvement over the M16. It's incredibly accurate for an AR, has good stopping power, and a very high cyclic ROF. You can empty a 30 round mag on full auto in 1.5 seconds with an M4.
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