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There should be 2 new CS 1.6 map categories: - Beginner Map - Worldcraft Online Map
There are often beginners who want to show their first maps on gamebanana. They often lack in quality and are no fun to play at all. One could say, they all could fall under the "low quality" rule. But I appreciate that beginners can upload them here and get tips from others how to improve. But they shouldn't be sorted between the other good and fun maps. For such maps there should be an entire map category, to have them in a seperate place.
Same goes with maps that were created with Worldcraft Online. They often look the same and have just the same primitive gameplay, no matter which category they try to intimate. So sorting these into an categroy for their own would be better.
not a bad idea , but you know , pro modders and pro players are less likely to visit that section if a separate one is created for the new modders . eventually , it might unexpectedly evolve into a place called place of the Trashy maps (this would discourage the new modders) . also not everyone's first map is everyone's first submission , as alpha said (My first submission was actually my latest map, other maps were something I wanted to finish since long time) . let the new modders put there maps in respective sections . I rather recommend a polite feedback notifying how improvements can be done to the map from advanced modders (Instead of discouraging them). that way , a new modder can improve their maps and feel friendly on GB. [AS USUAL] I don't recommend putting anyone's first map in the W.I.P itself either . . .
I get what you mean but after thinking about it a few minutes I've come to think that instead of making an entire section for beginner maps it would be better to make beginner mappers upload their maps as WIPs (until they reach basic level of quality). Maybe a new rule would be required to enforce this. That new rule would compliment the quality rule.
I, for my part, agree with what you propose. Probably because I am also a beginner at this, but it seems to me that the idea of having a "special" section for those maps can help us more. On the other hand, it is also true that it may happen that people are neglected or "ignored" but it is simply a matter of people who really want to help and have the time between once or twice a day and see what maps there are. Of course, this is simply my point of view, everyone will have their own
It's a little bit too generalised, but can be applied to all.
Common Sense Needed
Although I welcome beginners or first-time submitters, I STRONGLY DO NOT welcome those beginners with zero common sense in submitting their work as 'final, but it's totally crap' or 'work-in-progress, but unstable nor aesthetically pleasing'.
Can't Find The Rule At All
There's no rulein the world that your VERY FIRST WORK must be A VERY FIRST SUBMISSION. There's no penalty nor reward in submitting your first work as the first sub. Maybe there's a self-reward if you put in a lot of effort in your very first work, and it turns out pretty nice.
Yes, there are some first time modders which can pull off a very good quality sub on their first try, but they could've easily have an 'experimental' branch, before implementing it in the 'main' branch.
Even I, myself, getting into GoldSrc map editing, I created a lot of not-so-good maps, and eventually managed to figure out what to do, and what to improved upon. But did I release those maps? No, not really, why would I?
Want Criticism for your WIP, Sub a WIP
It even applies to big companies; an experimental feature, or WIP, they do not release it as WORKING FINAL feature.
Can you imagine Microsoft release the Preview Version as Release Version? A riot will ensue. That's why Microsoft dedicated a WIP builds as Preview Version, not Release Version.
I've checked the WIP submission tab pages, yes, you can upload your file(s) so that users can download it.
Can you imagine if they sub a WIP as final, totally forgotten about it, or scrapped it--though they didn't bother removing it? One could say that they are farming for points.
Like the last paragraph for 'Can't Find The Rule At All', you, your own self, should criticise your own work.
I mean, there's no harm in trying what you think is the best for that map first, once you've compiled, and sub it under WIP, the community can return the feedback about your work and improve upon it.
There's no point in NOT implementing something, and asking for the community for feedback, your work will never be completed.
Not only that, those beginners should put themselves in others' perspective:
Does the map look aesthetically OK?
Does the map details looked disproportion (no sense of scale from)?
Does the player know which is Bomb Site A or B?
Does the player know which 'room' is the terrorist, or hostage spawn?
Plus, do you work with external criticism only? I doubt so.
I mean take look, it's de_downtown from Claustr0 versus my challenge to him...which is more pleasing to download and play on? See the image.
Sending The Wrong Message
Although this is because of the deletion scares, due to the OG CS section was taken down entirely (please, no repeat of it), I often wonder what kind of messages will the GB community be sending?
Is a trashy mod allow in the community as final? Or do they need to work hard for a decent quality mod to be allowed?
If we allow trashy mods, how do we differentiate from a working trashy mod versus an unstable trashy mod?
Do we even have enough moderators to go around, vetting through trashy mods?
Will they continue to work/update on trashy mod, or is it a simply one off thing?
I don't really think Beginners should deserve their own cat. in the Maps, and like seedee mentioned, some beginners maps require more work, while others, just map for fun and it's a one-off thing. Unless you're GB's criticiser, there's little to no reason why one should visit a Beginners section.
I apologise if this rant is a little bit all over the place.
While it'd be good for newcomers to have their maps receive better attention in order to help them improve, I also believe that an entirely separate category for that purpose alone would be kind of redundant.
I believe that beginners' maps can receive just as much attention even if they're not separately categorized, and still attract much of the help/criticism that's needed for beginners to improve their skills, accordingly.
Agreed with seedee, separating beginner maps from others will make them less and less popular. We only remove extremely low effort maps. Beginner maps aren't always low effort. Also the Worldcraft online is just like any map editor so it doesn't really need its own category (same with hammer and J.A.C.K)
I do not support a separate category for beginner maps. What's fun is entirely subjective to begin with. escape_the_city is a complete mess design-wise and poorly optimized, but I find it very enjoyable. I wouldn't want maps like that to be fenced off into a corner where no one will see them. From what I've seen on other sites, such as csm.dev, "beginner categories" are far less popular than "best map categories". If no one clicks there then this discourages feedback. I prefer the current system where you can filter maps by their views and likes, with each map categorized by its game mode.